Ted Greenstein of the CHICAGO TRIBUNE reports today:
According to a league official, the Big Ten will release a statement Tuesday saying the matter has moved to the front burner. The first sign of change came from former Wisconsin coach Barry Alvarez, who told Wisconsin’s athletic board on Friday that Delany “is going to take this year to really be more aggressive about it. I just think everybody feels [expansion] is the direction to go, coaches and administrators.”
Alvarez also noted, “We’re irrelevant for the last three weeks of the football season because we’re not playing.” If Big 10 expanded two 12 teams, it would create two six team divisions and facilitate a lucrative Big 10 championship football game.
Penn State’s Joe Paterno said last May: “Everybody else is playing playoffs on television. You never see a Big Ten team mentioned. So I think that’s a handicap.”
Wisconsin Coach Bret Bielema previously said to ESPN.com that, “everybody would welcome a 12th team in the league and maybe having a championship game.”
Six months ago, Commissioner Jim Delany went on the record about the issue: “I’m agnostic. I could live with two divisions and a championship game, but I think that has a tendency to devalue the season-ending game and have a negative impact (in terms of at-large BCS selection) on your losing team in season-ending games.”
Now for the fun part, what team would join the league? Notre Dame is the elephant in the room, but Paterno now wants no part of the Irish in his league.
Paterno: “There’s some pressure, I would suppose, to maybe go back to Notre Dame and ask again, which I would not be happy with. I think they’ve had their chance.”
So long as ND’s deal with NBC remains afloat, a move to the Big 10 for the Irish won’t happen.
My top candidates would include Missouri, West Virginia and Louisville. Louisville would help beef up the faltering state of basketball in the league. How the divisions would break down would be another questions - and rivalries maintained.
When it comes to logistics and a logical fit, I’d probably go with West Virgina.
West: Minnesota, Wisconsin, Northwestern, Iowa, Illinois, Indiana
East: Penn State, Purdue, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, West Virginia
What’s so hard about that?
11:45 am on December 15th, 2009
Pitt or Cincinnati seem like more logical targets.
And now for some of that “outside of the box thinking”: Temple. They’re basketball team is okay, and their football team doesn’t really fit in the MAC, and the football team isn’t a threat to the big boys in the league who would push back against anyone who might be a real challenge.
11:47 am on December 15th, 2009
I think Pittsburgh would be a good option for the league as both sports are good.
11:50 am on December 15th, 2009
I say Pitt as well, will compete in football and basketball, and it would renew the Pitt-Penn State rivalry, instead of this god awful Penn State-Michigan State rivalry and the coveted Land Grant trophy
11:52 am on December 15th, 2009
The Big Ten will want a fully-fledged research school to keep up with its academic interests, which eliminates Cincinnati, Louisville, Syracuse, and…Notre Dame (for all its history, Notre Dame is fundamentally a liberal arts school).
The Big Ten will also want as big a market as regionally viable, which eliminates Iowa State and (probably) Missouri.
This leaves the following as viable choices: Rutgers; Pitt; West Virginia. Of those three, only Rutgers and Pitt are in the Big Ten’s neighborhood academically. Pitt has more research money than Rutgers (remember, it started as a private school, and it’s still technically not public), but Rutgers is closer to New York.
11:53 am on December 15th, 2009
I think Pitt would be a strong addition to the Big Ten. Clearly a 12th member school would help as far as allowing for a Big Ten football championship game, and Pitt makes as much sense to me as any other viable (read: non-ND) option.
11:56 am on December 15th, 2009
Pitt is the logical choice, but Paterno is dead set against it …. so it will never happen.
11:57 am on December 15th, 2009
All current Big 10 members belong to the prestigious Association of American Universities. Any new members will need to belong as well. The faculty and trustees won’t have it any other way.
So, only Pittsburgh and Missouri are viable. ND is a member but obviously not happening. Rutgers and Syracuse would be darkhorses. These are the only schools in the conversation.
11:59 am on December 15th, 2009
@Jake: Rutgers is also AAU.
12:01 pm on December 15th, 2009
If Notre Dame is not wanting to move, then I think they will go after Rutgers and the largest market. This will assist in getting the BTN into more households.
12:02 pm on December 15th, 2009
In this order, the Big 10 would be best served.
1-ND
2- Pitt
3- Missouri
4- Iowa St
5- NIU
12:05 pm on December 15th, 2009
I think Pitt makes tons of sense. I like your East / West breakdown as well. the question is, would that overload the Big 10 East? many times michigan, penn state, osu and mich state are the 4 of the 5 best teams in the conference?
12:15 pm on December 15th, 2009
Another big question: does the Pennsylvania governor’s office have veto power over Missouri and Rutgers? The Virginia governor’s office had veto power in the ACC’s selection of Virginia Tech instead of Syracuse or Rutgers.
Also — why Rutgers, really? If the ACC thought Rutgers really equaled “New York,” then they would have taken Rutgers instead of BC.
12:19 pm on December 15th, 2009
Why in hell would Mizzou leave the Big 12 to go to the Big 10? The Big 12 is stronger in every major sport and already provides their teams with great national exposure and a chance to play for a championship.
12:29 pm on December 15th, 2009
Why would a team leave one BCS conference for another?
Missouri may not like the coverage they get in the Big 12, but why would you trade in the Big 12 North for a conference slate that may include OSU and Michigan?
Same goes for Louisville and WVU. Why leave an automatic BCS qualifying league that you can dominate for one where you would be a bottom feeder? Not going to happen.
Best shot, I think is going to be the Loser 11 finding a mid-major from the MAC…
12:32 pm on December 15th, 2009
“faltering state of basketball”…Are you kidding me? I guess you haven’t been paying attention lately.
12:32 pm on December 15th, 2009
I think all y’all are overreaching on the schools the Big 10 can bring in right now. The more likely route will be a step down, not laterally, as in a Mid-American squad - Central Michigan, Northern Illinois, Miami of Ohio, Akron, Ohio, Ball St or Temple. None of those teams mentioned are leaving a wide-open Big East football conference that was one second away from sending a team to the championship game this year.
12:43 pm on December 15th, 2009
Those of you suggesting MAC schools or wondering why a Pitt or Mizzou would consider a switch are completely oblivious to what Mike and I said above. NO school that is NOT a member of the AAU will become a member of the Big Ten. And there’s a great deal more prestige affiliated with the Big Ten academically (Michigan, Northwestern, Wisc, Ill) than the Big 12. Believe it or not, the teams are actually a part of schools and despite appearances otherwise, that’s the first qualification. So again, IF they expand, the ONLY schools are Pitt, Mizzou, Rutgers, Syracuse and Notre Dame if Joe Pa passes on.
12:43 pm on December 15th, 2009
Why does the Big Ten need another team in order to have a championship? Just have 2 divisions, East and West, with one having 5 teams and the other having 6 teams.
12:48 pm on December 15th, 2009
faltering state of basketball in the league.???
12:50 pm on December 15th, 2009
Brooks - long time reader/first time poster.
“My top candidates would include Missouri, West Virginia and Louisville. Louisville would help beef up the faltering state of basketball in the league.” -
What do you mean faltering state of basketball in Big 10? There are three teams ranked in top 25 with Wisconsin, Northwestern, and Illinois ranked in the top 50. Add to the fact that Illinois, Michigan State, Wisconsin, and Ohio State have been pretty dominant in both recruiting and tourney over the last 10 years - with one or more big ten teams in the final four often enough.
I am not saying Big Ten is better than the ACC top to bottom or is even better than Big East - But it is a power basketball conference and certainly dominates the SEC and other lesser conferences (a conference full of whiney, uneducated individuals with inferiority complexes - sorry OSU Alum and Columbus, Ohio resident).
Again as an OSU Alum and Columbus resident - I think WVU makes the most sense for the Big Ten. First of all F&*^ ND and the cross they rode in on for dissing us the first time around. Plus it would be too easy kicking their ass year in and year out.
WVU on the other hand has consistently been a good basketball and football school the last 10 years. Also, it is a state school and really the only big school in West Virginia (Sorry Marshall - you all suck). And finally, there is a pretty heated rivalry between Ohioans (half of which are from West Virginia or have family in West Virginia) and West Virginians. It would give OSU essentially and in-state type rivalry that it currently does not have.
GO BUCKS!
Thoughts?
1:18 pm on December 15th, 2009
Careful on the division splits there or else you’ll get the Sucky division and the Not-so-Sucky division
1:22 pm on December 15th, 2009
Pitt and UC points are well-taken.
But UC football could easily collapse now and hoops still isn’t what it once was.
Pitt would be a better candidate than UC and possibly Louisville, but I think WV, as a high-profile state school, would be a better fit. Just my gut reax.
If Louisville football was still flying high, ppl would be touting the Cards. You have to take a long view on these things.
1:23 pm on December 15th, 2009
Johnny Cakes,
You are nuts.
1:32 pm on December 15th, 2009
A lot of what I’m reading is taking into account the current state of the football or hoops team. Take the long view.
For instance, it would be insane to take Temple or UC. UC football could be back to the dregs almost instantly. Likewise the Owls.
Look more at the overall prestige of the school and the consistency of the programs over the years. That puts MU at the top. Then prob WV and Louisville. Maybe Pitt.
With MU’s big rivalry with Illinois, I would assume that is Delany’s #1 target. But Penn State has no rival, and WV would be HUGE.
1:35 pm on December 15th, 2009
I know about Pitt-Penn St., but I just don’t think Pitt fits the profile of the Big 10. I don’t have a good reason, that’s just my guy. And JoPa would probably try to block it for all we know.
MU going to Big 10 would suck. I grew up in KC so I’m biased buy MU-KU is much bigger than MU-Illinois.
2:07 pm on December 15th, 2009
This is about getting people to watch the B10 Network. Rutger’s AD Tim Pernetti and B10 commish Delany are very close. RU is in the #1 media market in the country. Tie that to the friendships Pernetti built with all those Big Ten ADs in creating and building up the College Football Network and I think RU hold some real cards. Schiano’s friendship with Paterno undoubtedly helps even more. Rutgers is a large Land Grant, State University and member of the AAU. All similar to the current members of the B10. I see this happening for RU.
2:08 pm on December 15th, 2009
You can count out Syracuse. The Big East is now sponsoring Lacrosse.
2:10 pm on December 15th, 2009
The east west breakdown doesn’t work. Penn State can’t be with Ohio State and Michigan.
2:24 pm on December 15th, 2009
If University prestige is a criteria for entry, then Ohio State and Michigan State should be kicked out.
I think the B10 should drop a team - Minnesota would be my choice and go back to full on round robin to decide a champion. Also, no B10 should be allowed to play the dreaded Domers.
2:30 pm on December 15th, 2009
Well im all for expansion……especially if it would be iowa st or mizzou……..get TCU IN THE BIG 12!!!!!!
2:31 pm on December 15th, 2009
@Meezy: since nobody mentioned it, NCAA FBS regulations require a league to have 12 schools before it can do a championship game. I am not aware of a process by which they could request a waiver.
2:45 pm on December 15th, 2009
The regional aspect of the conference is overemphasized here.
Why not Central Florida?
2:52 pm on December 15th, 2009
Top choices are West Virginia, Pitt, and Missouri in that order. I think the motives for the move are 3) rival for PSU, 2) conference championship game, 1) grow the Big Ten network. For those reasons, I think they will go Rutgers.
2:55 pm on December 15th, 2009
Syracuse has as much chance of getting in as Iowa State or even Buffalo — and they’re all AAU members.
@JeepGuy: Northwestern is a private school, the only one in the Big Ten.
2:56 pm on December 15th, 2009
And the 6-6 Minnesota Gophers square off against the 12-0 Ohio St Buckeyes in the 3rd Annual Big Ten Championsip Game! And the 7-6 Gophers are going to the Rose Bowl!
2:57 pm on December 15th, 2009
I have a crazy idea - Buffalo. Its the biggest State University in New York - A huge research institution a member of the prestigious Association of American Universities, and an up and coming program. Sure they’ll get kicked around for a few years, but I’m telling you they’ll get up to speed before you know it. 10 years.
3:07 pm on December 15th, 2009
First off it won’t be a Big East team so that rules out Cincy, W,Virginia, Pitt or Syracuse. When BC, Va.Tech and Miami bolted to the ACC the Big East, thanks to the CT Attorney General, changed their bylaws about teams coming and going and added a large exit fee which no one will pay.
Arkansas has wanted out of the SEC for awhile because of their old SWC days with the Texas schools. So similar to the last expansion of conferences it could go like this.
Missouri leaves Big 12 joins Big 10 which allows Arkansas to join the Big 12. Which allows the Big 12 to re-draw the divisions.
The SEC is mostly large liberal arts colleges so gaining a member is easier for them ie Arkansas. The SEC would probably look at Texas for a partner so TCU or Houston are most likely or they could add S.Miss or even Memphis.
3:10 pm on December 15th, 2009
“Louisville would help beef up the faltering state of basketball in the league.”
Didn’t the Big Ten just beat the ACC in the challenge?
3:12 pm on December 15th, 2009
Pitt and Rutgers are the best choices. WVU doesn’t meet the academic profile of a B10 school.
3:37 pm on December 15th, 2009
The University of Nebraska is a member of The Association of American Universities and there are a lot of people here that would love to get the hell out of the Big XII. I’m just saying…
3:57 pm on December 15th, 2009
Re: division split - they will never put OSU, Michigan and Penn State in the same division.
4:12 pm on December 15th, 2009
MIKE, What the heck are you smoking??? Cincinnati is not a research school??? The University of Cincinnati is renown academically for two things 1.) UC Hospital pre-med program, 2.) Architecture. Do either of those sound like liberal arts endeavors to you??? Trust me, I have lived here my whole life. Not to mention, Cincy is the home of the largest soaps, lotions, and potions maker in the world, P&G. Where do you think they go to find chemical engineers & chemical biologists???
Anyway. Back to football. The idea of adding a team has to bring value and validation to the whole, which Big Ten officials recognize they have lost much of in the last 5 years or so. They need a program with speed, power, and recent history of winning. It needs a team that is committed to investing $ to improve their program and bring it back to it’s days of glory, as well as a team that will benefit in the BCS bowl picture being in one of the “power 6″ conferences. It will most likely be a very large public university. Cincy just recently joined the Big East. I don’t have a clue who best fits those criteria, but it WILL NOT be UC.
4:22 pm on December 15th, 2009
“Re: division split - they will never put OSU, Michigan and Penn State in the same division.”
The Big XII has Texas, Oklahoma, and all the sometimes-good Texas schools like Tech and A&M in the same division.
4:22 pm on December 15th, 2009
wow Brooks, pretty uneven divisions? If I was a new team in the Big 10 (what a stupid name by the way and the Big 12 is already taken) I’d beg to placed in the West
5:17 pm on December 15th, 2009
Nebraska has my attention more than any other. There the only school that’s been tossed out there with any storied program that has current relevance. (F*** ND)
5:35 pm on December 15th, 2009
@Bryan: I think P&G gets its researchers from Big Ten schools and other AAU schools. UC is a good school, but it’s not at the academic level of Big Ten schools. Pitt and Rutgers exceed most of the Big Ten academically. If I’m sending my Ohio-born kid to a research university, I’m probably focusing on places like Case Western, OSU, UMich, Purdue, etc.
7:02 pm on December 15th, 2009
This is perhaps the most interesting and valid discussion I’ve seen on this website ever.
Whole lot of you have really good points for what they might do.
Obviously Notre Dame is the obvious choice, but I’m sure this is heavily driven by the Big Ten Network and they would love a New Jersey audience. My gut tells me it’s Rutgers.
And maybe Notre Dame too later on, and they kick out Indiana U.
9:04 pm on December 15th, 2009
Don’t underestimate the academic viewpoint, in 1994 Texas was going to bolt to the PAC-10, mainly for academic reasons: Berkeley, Stanford, UCLA were where they wanted to be. Texas A&M were also interested in coming west. Stanford vetoed (PAC-10 expansion requires a unanimous vote), and Texas then looked towards where A&M really wanted to be, the SEC. The SEC was courting Miami, and when that broke down, they were hot and heavy on A&M, but Texas balked at the low academic standards of the SEC. Texas and A&M even tried the Big10, the only thing that really sent them to the Big-12 was geography and the PAC-10 and Big10 said no. Really good article on in here: http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/MYSA081405_3N_SWCbaylor_tech_1ca3e1c_html8528.html
And the most important quote from the Big10 “We have eight states. With expansion, you could have nine.” Seemingly rules out a lot of teams discussed above.
I love the idea of schools moving around, it seems like playing a general, deciding where you fight.
3:48 am on December 16th, 2009
RU has beaten USF, uconn, syracuse, pitt 4 of the last 5 years. beaten louisville 3 of 5. RU has the most conference wins in the last 5 years behind WVU and cincy (barely behind cincy - was ahead before this year, and nobody knows what will happen after the brian kelly era). it’s true that RU is 4th in the BE this year, but recently overall i’d say 3rd.
so for big 10 expansion, i’d say…
ND is #1 - but that’s not gonna happen. they will likely ask privately and get a no.
for the rest of the options:
AAU members (all of big 10) = RU, pitt, syracuse, missouri, nebraska
US NEWS WR tier 1 university with decent academics (all of big 10) = RU, pitt, syracuse, maybe missouri (ranked 102)
public university (all of big 10 except northwestern) = RU, pitt, missouri
undergrad enrollment of 20,000+ (all except northwestern) = RU, pitt, missouri
land grant institutions (7 schools of big 10) = RU, missouri
“eastern travel partner” for PSU mentioned in the statement released earlier today = RU, pitt, syracuse
wild cards… RU and RU alone has the potential TV markets of NYC, NJ, and Philly. those are the country’s 1st and 7th largest TV markets… waiting to be tapped by the BTN. our stadium expansion looked a bit silly after the shellacking we got from cincy on labor day on nat’l TV, but you’d be an idiot if you think we couldn’t sell out every time PSU, OSU, Michigan came to NJ, probably even after doubling ticket prices, no matter how poorly we play. this is where the traditional lack of respect for RU works in our favor, because PSU had the most fans until recently. they would all come out of the woodwork to go to big 10 games at RU.
similarly, the NY market is owned by pro sports, and the limited college FB presences there are (in no particular order) ND, PSU, and RU. even if RU comes third, why WOULDN’T the big 10 consolidate their NY TV presence by snapping up the 3rd largest constituency? and i’d bet RU isn’t 3rd, and that RU fans are definitely the fastest growing NYC demographic out of those 3. add to that the fact that RU (and neither of the other two) is about 90 minutes away from philly… which by itself is larger than any other TV market in the big 10. looks like an easy answer.
additionally, PSU/joePA doesn’t really want pitt, and syracuse is closer to toronto than it is to NY, and i think the table is set.
9:39 am on December 16th, 2009
after listening to all arguments. I am convinced Temple makes the best choice. Their football program will go thru the roof with the big ten. Huge market.
10:37 am on December 16th, 2009
For everyone out there who is ragging WVU’s academics, how many Rhodes Scholars has your school produced? If it’s a public school then the answer is less than WVU, and that’s a fact.
I think everyone is missing the big picture here, and that this whole announcement about expansion has one goal: Notre Dame. If Notre Dame says no, the Big 10 will most likely say they have looked into expansion and do not feel it is a good option at this time. Honestly if Notre Dame doesn’t join (which it won’t), the only team that would move might be Iowa State, who used to be in the Big 10 anyway.
And that’s the best situation for everyone involved. The Big 10 gets their coveted conference championship game, and the Big 12 will probably invited TCU to join. If it decided to go after Arkansas, then that opens up a lot of possibilities.
12:00 pm on December 16th, 2009
ok, think of the new confrence namw the BIGGER 12?
12:00 pm on December 16th, 2009
ok, think of the new confrence name the BIGGER 12?
3:54 pm on December 16th, 2009
Louisville makes sense. 5 big 10 schools within a 4-5 hr drive, fans travel very well, a new 22,000 seat basketball arena that will be full every night, 56,000 seat football stadium that can be expanded to over 80,000 seats. Why the big 10 would want pitt, rutgers or syracuse is beyond me. Those fans dont travel well at all.
And if you think the big 10 would not gain nothing with Louisville you are nuts! Look at the top bball schools profit and tv ratings. There is alot more to gain with Louisville than Mizzou. Your not gonna boost football in any aspect unless you get Notre Dame, not gonna happen. Louisville could be a very strong Big 10 city…tons of Indiana and Ohio St. fans live here in Louisville. Me as a louisville fan would love to play in the Big 10…and a football championship game!
Louisville is on pace to become an AAU member as well…Mich St. did not become a member until 10 years after they joined the big 10.
1:29 am on December 20th, 2009
temple. hells yeah
11:47 pm on January 23rd, 2010
PITT??? are you serious? They don’t have their own football stadium let alone the fair weather fans. WVU is the best choice by far!
9:06 pm on May 10th, 2010
A couple facts need to be dealt with. 1st, the Big 10 is going to look hard at academics along with athletics. In particular, to see if ANY school they might consider belongs to the Association of American Colleges and Universities, as Omagraw and Jake point out. It might not be the deciding factor but it’ll carry A LOT of weight.
Many of the schools mentioned in previous posts are members, including the 4 attributed to today’s report. West Virginia is not. Texas is not. Pitt is not. Consider them out of the running.
2nd, rivalries. I can’t speak for other leagues, but in the Big 10, there are traditional rivals and regional rivals. For instance, Ohio State’s traditional rival is Michigan. Their regional rival is Penn State. That’s why both are on OSU’s schedule every year. Texas is again out of the mix because it would lose its traditional rival, A&M, as well as their regional rival, Oklahoma. That game is in October. By that time, the Big 10 is already playing conference games.
Now for an opinion. Notre Dame isn’t a good fit for the Big 10 and has said so before. 1st of all, their strength of schedule would take a huge hit because of weaker teams within the league. They can schedule tougher competition as an independent and qualify for a better bowl than the ones the Big 10 has agreements with.
Also, Notre Dame football has had a national media contract…either radio or TV…for DECADES. That alone guarantees them millions of dollars, which would be sacrificed by joining the Big 10. Their TV network only assures you of 2 games a year plus any other games another network MIGHT pick up. Quite a difference!
My choices? There are 3. Missouri, UConn, Vanderbilt.